Dr. James Zogby

Viewpoint Episode and Transcript: 07/12/2007

Posted on Saturday July 14, 2007

James Zogby: HI, I’M JIM ZOGBY, AND WELCOME TO A SPECIAL EDITION OF “VIEWPOINT.”
TONIGHT’S GUEST FOR THE ENTIRE HOUR IS RALPH NADER, CITIZEN, ACTIVIST AND ORGANIZER. DURING THE LAST FOUR DECADES RALPH HAS BEEN A TRANSFORMATIONAL
FIGURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY BECAUSE OF THE WORK HE ORGANIZED AND HELP TO LEAD.
WE DRIVE SAFER CARS, EAT HEALTHIER FOOD, LIVE WITH CLEANER AIR AND WATER, AND WORK IN A SAFER ENVIRONMENT. NADER LED EFFORTS TO PRODUCE THE OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, THE
CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION, THE SAFE DRINKING WATER ACT, AND I COULD GO ON AND ON. HE’S OF COURSE ALSO RUN FOR PRESIDENT AS AN INDEPENDENT AND REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GREEN PARTY, AND HE’S AUTHOR OF DOZENS OF BOOKS INCLUDING HIS MOST RECENT, “THE SEVENTEEN TRADITIONS.” AND THAT’S WHAT I’M GOING TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT. WELCOME, AND THANKS FOR BEING WITH US, RALPH.

Ralph Nader: THANK YOU.

J.Z.: I WANT TO BEGIN, ACTUALLY, WITH A LITTLE CLIP FROM A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT
YOU. “AN UNREASONABLE MAN” IT’S CALLED. AND I WANTED TO GET IT OUT THERE BECAUSE IT HAS SOME FOOTAGE ABOUT THE HOMETOWN WHERE YOU GREW UP AND ABOUT YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR FATHER. AND I WANT TO GET THAT BEFORE VIEWERS RIGHT IN THE BEGINNING WITH A FEW LITTLE REFLECTIONS ABOUT THEM FROM YOUR SISTERS. LET’S SHOW THIS CLIP FROM “AN UNREASONABLE MAN.”

Sister: WINSTED, CONNECTICUT, WAS A TOWN THAT ABOUT 10,000 PEOPLE. THERE WERE
LOTS OF MILLS IN TOWN. IT WAS A TOWN THAT HAD LOTS OF IMMIGRANTS—POLISH, ITALIAN, PEOPLE FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, ARABIC—-AND YANKEE. IT WAS QUITE A MIX.
DAD CAME TO THIS COUNTRY IN 1912. HE WAS SELF-MADE IN EVERY WAY. HE WAS IN THE FOOD BUSINESS, BUT I THINK WHAT HE MOST LIKED WAS NOT SO MUCH THE BUSINESS—BUSINESS PART OF IT, BUT HE LOVED TALKING TO PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY ABOUT POLITICS. HE SAID, “WHEN I WENT PAST THE STATUE OF LIBERTY, I TOOK IT SERIOUSLY. YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SPEAK YOUR MIND.” MY MOTHER REALLY WAS FOCUSED ON HER FAMILY. AND THEN AS WE GREW AND WENT INTO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, SHE BECAME A GREAT COMMUNITY ACTIVIST IN ALL KINDS OF ISSUES.

J.Z.: THE ISSUE OF FAMILY IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU, AND IT COMES THROUGH SO CLEARLY IN THE BOOK—FAMILY IMPORTANT IN MANY, MANY WAYS. THERE’S A QUOTE BY YOU IN THE BOOK THAT I WANTED TO PUT UP, AND I’M GOING TO ACTUALLY PUT A LOT OF QUOTES UP IF YOU VIEWERS DON’T MIND THAT YOU’RE GONNA HAVE TO LISTEN AND READ TODAY.
I WANT TO SHOW THIS. IT’S ABOUT FAMILY AND ABOUT THE ROLE THAT FAMILIES ARE NOT PLAYING TODAY. HERE’S WHAT IT SAYS. IT SAYS, “MORE AND MORE FAMILIES ARE FARMING OUT THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO COMMERCIAL SERVICE PROVIDERS. THE FAMILY INDUSTRY IS SWIFTLY BECOMING A REAL FACTOR IN OUR ECONOMY, AND THIS COMES WITH A PRICE.”
WHAT’S THE PRICE?

Nader: THE PRICE IS NOT ENOUGH TIME BETWEEN PARENTS AND CHILDREN. CHILDREN TODAY ARE SPENDING LESS TIME WITH ADULTS, INCLUDING THEIR OWN PARENTS, THAN ANY GENERATION IN HUMAN HISTORY. AND WHERE ARE THEY SPENDING THEIR TIME? WATCHING SCREENS—VIDEO SCREENS, INTERNET, TELEVISION. 50 HOURS A WEEK IS THE AVERAGE FOR A 10-YEAR-OLD, FOR EXAMPLE. AND THEY’RE NOT BEING SOCIALIZED. THEY’RE NOT DEVELOPING THEIR VOCABULARY. THEY’RE NOT CONNECTING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THEY’RE IN VIRTUAL REALITY, NOT REALITY. AND OF COURSE THAT HAS A BIG IMPACT ON THEIR HEALTH. I MEAN KIDS, A LOT OF KIDS TODAY ARE VERY OVERWEIGHT, THEY HAVE DIABETES, THEY’RE BEING SOLD JUNK FOOD, VIOLENT PROGRAMMING—ALL THE WRONG THINGS FOR THEIR LIFE BY CORPORATIONS THAT ARE BYPASSING THEIR PARENTS, WHO ARE OFTEN AWAY, COMMUTING, JOBS, AND DIRECTLY MARKETING TO KIDS. THAT NEVER HAPPENED WHEN WE WERE GROWING UP. ABOUT THE ONLY THING COMPANIES MARKETED STRAIGHT TO KIDS WAS BUBBLEGUM, AND NOW THEY’RE MARKETING EVERYTHING THAT’S HARMING THEIR MINDS AND HARMING THEIR LITTLE BODIES.

J.Z.: TWO THINGS THAT OCCURRED TO ME AS I WAS LOOKING AT THE BOOK
AND READING THROUGH IT ABOUT WHAT THE LOSS OF THE KIND OF FAMILY YOU TALK ABOUT MEANS. AND BOTH HAVE TO DO WITH CULTURE. ON THE ONE SIDE THERE IS—THE LESS TIME PARENTS SPEND WITH CHILDREN, THE LESS TRADITION GETS CONVEYED.

Nader: EXACTLY.

J.Z.: AND THE SECOND IS THAT YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT THE CULTURE OF CHILDREN.

Nader: MM-HMM.

J.Z.: WHEN YOU GREW UP—PLAYING IN THE STREETS AND GOING INTO THE WOODS TOGETHER AND THE GAMES THAT—ALMOST AS I WAS—I REMEMBER GROWING UP—THAT GOT PASSED FROM EACH GENERATION. I MEAN, AS WE GOT TO BE 16, THERE WAS ANOTHER GROUP OF KIDS AT THE PLAYGROUND WHO WERE 11 WHO WERE DOING THE THINGS WE WERE DOING. AND THAT YOUTH CULTURE IS GONE.

Nader: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE CONNECTEDNESS BETWEEN THE GENERATIONS IS BEING RUPTURED, THE OLD ORAL TRADITION THAT THE IMMIGRANTS BROUGHT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU ASK 21-YEAR-OLD TODAY HOW MANY PROVERBS DO YOU KNOW IN ENGLISH? YOU KNOW,
YOU’RE LUCKY IF THEY GET TO 6 OR 10. BUT IN THE OLD COUNTRY…

J.Z.: I DON’T THINK THEY’D KNOW WHAT A PROVERB IS, BUT THAT’S ANOTHER STORY.

Nader: MAYBE. YOU KNOW, “A PENNY SAVED IS A PENNY EARNED,” BEN FRANKLIN?
BUT IN THE OLD COUNTRY, THEY SPOKE IN PROVERBS. I HAD AN AUNT IN LEBANON.
SHE KNEW OVER A THOUSAND PROVERBS IN TERMS OF HER DAILY CONVERSATION. SHE SPOKE IN PROVERBS. AND WHEN MY PARENTS CAME TO THE U.S., THEY DIDN’T BELIEVE IN
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT, YOU KNOW, HITTING THEIR OWN KIDS. THEY WERE APPALLED.
HOW COULD YOU STRIKE AND HARM YOUR OWN OFFSPRING IN A FIT OF TEMPER? THEY DISCIPLINED US FIRST WITH PROVERBS, AND JUST THE RIGHT ARABIC PROVERB WOULD—YOU KNOW, WHEN WE BECAME RAMBUNCTIOUS, YOU KNOW, [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
YOU KNOW, THE “WAIT, OLD MULE, UNTIL YOUR GRASS GROWS.” THAT’S FOR KIDS WHO PROCRASTINATE.

J.Z.: I BOUGHT MY MOM A BOOK, A COLLECTION OF THEM ALL, AND SHE LOVED IT. IT WAS A COLLECTION OF LEBANESE MOUNTAIN PROVERBS, AND THEY SPOKE IN THAT LANGUAGE. IT’S INTERESTING BECAUSE SHE WOULD ALWAYS BEGIN SOMETHING WITH “MY MOTHER USED TO SAY,” AND WE KNEW WHEN WE WERE HEARING THAT, THIS WAS NOT JUST WISDOM OF
THE PAST, BUT THERE WAS, “YOU BETTER LISTEN OR…”

Nader: YEAH.

J.Z.: AND I FIND MYSELF INCREASINGLY, AS I GO ON, NOT ONLY QUOTING HER,
“MY MOTHER USED TO SAY,” BUT ACTUALLY AS THINGS OCCUR TO ME THAT ARE WISE, I BEGIN THEM WITH, “MY MOTHER USED TO SAY,” AND I DON’T REMEMBER NOW WHAT SHE ACTUALLY DID SAY OR WHETHER IT WAS JUST SO WISE THAT I PUT IT THAT WAY, BUT THAT’S GONE.

Nader: WELL, JUST THINK HOW SUPERIOR IT IS RATHER THAN SAYING TO A CHILD, “STOP IT! CUT IT OUT! YOU’LL BE SORRY,” JUST FLOAT THE RIGHT PROVERB. NOW, SOMETIMES—
J.Z.: AND THE LESSON IS CONVEYED.

Nader: RIGHT. AND THE PROVERBS ARE, YOU KNOW, CONTAINERS OF HISTORICAL WISDOM AND EXPERIENCE. AND IF THAT DIDN’T WORK, WE WERE TOLD TO STAND IN THE CORNER NEAR THE SEWING MACHINE AND CONTEMPLATE OUR MISBEHAVIOR. BUT IT—THERE’S SO MUCH WISDOM IN THE BOOK AND INSIGHT AND EXPERIENCE THAT—WE THINK A LOT OF FAMILIES HAVE THAT, BUT THEY PROCRASTINATE PUTTING IT DOWN. AND YEAR AFTER YEAR GOES BY, AND PRETTY SOON WHAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS OR PARENTS KNEW, IT’S TOO LATE, AND IT’S GONE FOREVER. AND SO THAT EXPERIENCE, WISDOM, AND INSIGHT THAT COULD BE CONVEYED TO THE CHILDREN AND TO THEIR CHILDREN IS RUPTURED, AND IN PLACE OF IT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, CRAZY TELEVISION PROGRAMS FOR KIDS. IT’S JUST—

J.Z.: AND CHILDREN LEARN THROUGH POP CULTURE AND NOT THROUGH TRADITIONAL CULTURE.

Nader: WELL, IT’S MOSTLY CORPORATE CULTURE NOW. AND BY THE WAY, JUST TO MAKE THAT POINT, JIM, WE HAVE A WEBSITE CALLED SEVENTEENTRADITIONS.COM, “SEVENTEEN” SPELLED OUT, INVITING FAMILIES FROM ALL OVER TO SEND US ONE OF THEIR TRADITIONS JUST TO GET THE BALL ROLLING SO THEY CAN BEGIN PUTTING DOWN THEIR TRADITIONS.

J.Z.: I NOTICED THAT. BUT ARE PEOPLE RESPONDING?

Nader: YES, THEY ARE. THEY’RE RESPONDING.

J.Z.: TALK TO ME ABOUT THE YOUTH CULTURE, ANOTHER ASPECT OF LIFE THAT IS MISSING. ESPECIALLY WHEN WE MOVED HERE TO WASHINGTON, I NOTED THAT
EVERYTHING WE DID WAS DIRECTED BY PARENTS.

Nader: YEAH.

J.Z.: PARENTS DRIVE EVERYWHERE. PARENTS ORGANIZE EVERYTHING. CHILDREN DO NOT SIMPLY GET TOGETHER ON THEIR OWN. AND WHAT DOES THAT DENY US?

Nader: WELL, THERE’S A TRADITION IN THE BOOK OF SOLITUDE. MY PARENTS LET US HAVE OUR OWN SPACE, OUR OWN, YOU KNOW, SOLITUDE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT - THEY INTUITED, WITHOUT HAVING THE BENEFIT OF A PhD IN CHILD PSYCHOLOGY, THEY INTUITED THAT THE CHILD’S WONDER AND DREAMING AND IMAGINATION IS ENHANCED. SO WE WERE FREE TO GAZE AT THE STARS AND FOLLOW THE BUTTERFLIES AND PUTTER AROUND WITH OUR STAMP COLLECTION. AND THE TRADITION OF SIMPLE ENJOYMENTS IN THE BOOK-WE ONLY HAD TWO COMMERCIAL ENJOYMENTS—GOING TO SEE THE YANKEE GAMES ONCE IN A WHILE OR GOING TO THE MOVIE THEATER TWICE A YEAR. EVERYTHING ELSE WAS PARTICIPATORY.
IT WASN’T SPECTATOR, LIKE GOING TO SEE THE YANKEES OR A MOVIE. SO, IT WAS HIDE AND SEEK. IT WAS BIKING. IT WAS CLIMBING TREES. IT WAS HIKING. IT WAS, YOU KNOW, KICK THE CAN IN THE BACK YARD—ALL THESE THINGS THAT EXERCISE YOUR BODY, SOCIALIZED YOU WITH OTHER CHILDREN, AND JUST WERE A LOT MORE FUN. BY THE WAY,
A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE THAN $100 NINTENDO GAME, TOO, WHICH YOU GET TIRED OF.

J.Z.: JUST A PERSONAL PEEVE OF MINE, AND I JUST WANT TO GET IT OUT AND GET YOUR REACTION TO IT IS A BLURRING OF THE GENERATIONS, OF THE CONTEMPORARY GENERATIONS. AND YOU TALK ABOUT RESPECT, AND I WANT TO GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER. BUT WHAT I’M FINDING INCREASINGLY IS ADULTS DRESSING AND ACTING
LIKE CHILDREN, AND CHILDREN DRESSING AND ACTING MORE ADULT THAN THEY OUGHT TO
BE—IF THAT WORD “ADULT” CAN ACTUALLY BE USED TO DESCRIBE THE BEHAVIOR WE’RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT THERE’S NO—I HAD AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE, AN OLDER ARAB FELLOW WHO HAD COME OVER IN THE SEVENTIES, AND HE USED TO SAY THERE’S NO SENSE OF HIERARCHY. THE CHILDREN DON’T HAVE—AND AT YOUR TABLE AND IN YOUR FAMILY GATHERINGS, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT YOUR PARENTS TALKED ABOUT WAS, “KNOW YOUR PLACE.”

Nader: YEAH, BUT THE TRADITION OF CRITICAL THINKING, THEY WOULD REALLY PROVOKE US. THEY’D PREPARE A UTOPIA FOR THE WORLD AND THEN SAY, “OK, TAKE IT APART.
WHAT’S WRONG? IS THAT UNREALISTIC? WHY IS IT UNREALISTIC? IS IT IDEALISTIC? WELL, DON’T YOU THINK MOST GOOD THINGS IN THE WORLD THAT ARE NOW PRACTICAL STARTED WITH IDEALISM?” SO THEY REALLY—THEY DIDN’T CORDON US OFF AT ALL. MY FATHER WAS GREAT WITH A FEW WORDS. I CAME HOME FROM SCHOOL ONE DAY, AND HE SAID “RALPH,” - I WAS 10—HE SAID, “WHAT DID YOU LEARN IN SCHOOL TODAY? DID YOU LEARN HOW TO BELIEVE OR DID YOU LEARN HOW TO THINK?” NOW, THAT STAYED WITH ME RIGHT THROUGH COLLEGE, LAW SCHOOL. IS THIS TEACHER TRYING TO TEACH ME HOW TO BELIEVE OR TRYING TO TEACH ME HOW TO THINK? THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO SAY, “WELL, TIMES ARE DIFFERENT. IT’S NOT LIKE THE THIRTIES, FORTIES, AND FIFTIES IN A NEW ENGLAND FACTORY TOWN.” YEAH. BUT IT’S THE SAME CHALLENGES. FOR EXAMPLE, PARENTS TODAY, THEY WANT TO GET THEIR CHILDREN TO RESPECT THEM, TO EAT RIGHT, TO DO THEIR CHORES, TO COMPLETE THEIR STUDIES ON TIME, NOT TO FALL IN WITH THE WRONG CROWD, TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR HEALTH. IT’S THE SAME PROBLEMS. THAT’S WHY THIS BOOK IS RESONATING AROUND THE COUNTRY. I’D LIKE TO SEE IT TRANSLATED IN ARABIC, BY THE WAY. DO YOU KNOW IT’S GOING TO BE TRANSLATED IN TURKISH AND KOREAN?

J.Z.: I DIDN’T KNOW, BUT WE’LL-

Nader: BUT NOT YET ARABIC.

J.Z.: WE’LL TALK ABOUT THIS AS WE GO ON. ONE LAST THING ABOUT JUST THE GENERAL BACKGROUND TO YOUR PARENTS, AND THAT IS WHAT WE SAW IN THE BEGINNING OF THE STATUE OF LIBERTY. YOUR FATHER TALKED ABOUT THAT. HE TALKED ABOUT ISSUES RELATED TO THAT. AND ONE ADDITIONAL ASPECT THAT CAME THROUGH THAT SO RESONATED
WITH ME WAS THE UNIQUENESS OF THAT IMMIGRANT GENERATION BECAUSE THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS, AND THEY WERE, IN FACT, GROUNDED IN ANOTHER WORLD. THEY DIDN’T JUST BECOME AMERICANS, BUT THEY ALSO BECAME DEVOTEES OF LOCAL CULTURE. THEY BECAME A PART OF YOUR COMMUNITY AND KNEW IT, KNEW ITS HISTORY, AND TAUGHT YOU THE HISTORY. THEY BECAME CONVEYERS OF THE HISTORY AND CULTURE THEY ADOPTED.

Nader: EXACTLY. AS MY MOTHER SAID, “THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.” AND THEY DIDN’T SELF-SEGREGATE THEMSELVES WITH OTHER IMMIGRANTS FROM THE SAME AREA. NO, NOT AT ALL. IN FACT, THEY WENT TO THE OLD NEW ENGLAND YANKEES WHO RAN THE TOWN,
OBVIOUSLY, ECONOMICALLY AND SO ON, AND THEY’D SAY, “YOU HAVE THIS THING CALLED THE TOWN MEETING WHERE THE CITIZENS GET TOGETHER AND THEY VOTE ABOUT THINGS.
TELL US, HOW DOES IT WORK? WHAT ARE THE PROCEDURES? AND WHEN YOU STAND UP, CAN THEY TELL YOU TO SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN? WHAT ARE THE RULES?” AND IN THAT WAY, THESE OLD NEW ENGLAND YANKEES REALLY RESPECTED MY MOTHER AND FATHER.

J.Z.: YOUR PARENTS WERE BOTH POLITICAL AND BOTH WERE CONVEYERS OF VALUE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I NOTED IN THE BOOK, THOUGH, AS I WAS GOING THROUGH IT, WAS THAT YOU CAN ALMOST SEGREGATE OUT THE QUOTES. THE QUOTES FROM YOUR FATHER ARE THE MORE POLITICAL ONES, AND THE QUOTES FROM YOUR MOTHER ARE THE MORE VALUE AND PERSONAL-RESPONSIBILITY RELATED ONES. AND SO I WANT TO JUST TAKE A BUNCH OF THE QUOTES AND THROW THEM OUT AND ASK YOU TO COMMENT ON THEM. AND THE FIRST ONES ARE SOME OF YOUR FATHER’S QUOTES ON ECONOMIC JUSTICE, WHICH I THOUGHT WERE REALLY QUITE PROVOCATIVE. ONE IS SOMETHING HE SAID TO YOUR SISTER AS SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT STREET CLEANERS, AND HE SAID, “ALWAYS RESPECT STREET CLEANERS
IF ONLY BECAUSE THEY’RE DOING WORK YOU DON’T WANT TO DO BUT THAT YOU WANT VERY MUCH TO BE DONE, AND THAT’S WHY THEY SHOULD BE PAID MORE.” AND THE OTHER ONE WHICH I LIKE EQUALLY WELL, AND I THOUGHT WAS QUITE PROVOCATIVE WAS “EITHER WE SPREAD THE WEALTH IN A COUNTRY WHERE MILLIONS OF HUMANS GO WITHOUT, OR WE SPREAD MISERY.” WHERE DID YOUR FATHER GET HIS POLITICS FROM? ONE WOULD CALL HIM MORE THAN A LIBERAL, I MEAN, HE WAS A REVOLUTIONARY LEFTIST IN MANY WAYS. WHERE
DID HE GET IT FROM? DID HE BRING IT FROM LEBANON OR WAS IT SELF-TAUGHT HERE?

Nader: SELF-TAUGHT, SELF-READ. HE THOUGHT FOR HIMSELF. HE ALWAYS QUESTIONED THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM, AS THEY SAY, AND HE LOVED REPARTEE. HE RAN A LARGE SPRAWLING RESTAURANT ON MAIN STREET, WHICH WAS LIKE THE TOWN MEETING RESTAURANT EVERY DAY. THEY USED TO SAY FOR A NICKEL IN NADER’S RESTAURANT, YOU GOT A CUP OF COFFEE AND 10 MINUTES OF POLITICS. BUT IT WASN’T JUST HIM. IT WAS ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE—JURORS AND JUDGES AND BUSINESS PEOPLE AND TRADES PEOPLE AND FACTORY WORKERS. AND THAT REALLY HONED HIM. I MEAN, THEY HAD REAL ARGUMENTS—FRIENDLY ARGUMENTS. THEY JOKED ABOUT THE YANKEES AND THE RED SOX, THINGS LIKE THAT, OF COURSE, BUT IT’S AN AMAZINGLY DIFFERENT SCENE NOW. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE WAYS THEY DEALT WITH EACH OTHER—POLISH AMERICANS AND ITALIAN AMERICANS, THEY WOULD THROW ETHNIC JOKES AGAINST EACH OTHER, ETHNIC JOKES. THEY’RE TOTALLY TABOO TODAY. YOU CAN’T EVEN FIND AN ETHNIC JOKE BOOK IN THE LARGEST BOOKSTORE
IN WASHINGTON, D.C. BUT, THEY NEVER TOLD ETHNIC JOKES BEHIND THEIR BACK—IT WAS IN FRONT OF EACH OTHER, AND IT WAS A JOVIAL WAY OF ACCENTUATING CERTAIN TRAITS OF CERTAIN ETHNIC GROUPS. SURE, EXAGGERATING THEM, BUT IT WAS A WAY TO DEFUSE TENSIONS AS WELL, AND SO MUCH HEALTHIER—
J.Z.: HE WASN’T ANTI-WEALTH. ACTUALLY, HE HAD GREAT RESPECT FOR THOSE WHO HAD EARNED WEALTH AND CONTRIBUTED TO THE COMMUNITY. AND THERE’S A SCENE YOU DESCRIBE OF YOUR FATHER DRIVING AROUND TOWN AND POINTING OUT THE INSTITUTIONS, THE LIBRARY AND THE HOSPITAL, ET CETERA, THAT WERE THE RESULT OF THOSE WHO HAD GIVEN
THEIR WEALTH, AND HE LAMENTED THE FACT THAT MANY MORE DIDN’T DO THE SAME.

Nader: EXACTLY. I’LL NEVER FORGET THAT LITTLE TRIP THAT TOOK ABOUT AN HOUR.
HE WENT UP TO THE ORPHANAGE, TO THE HIGH SCHOOL, TO THE HOSPITAL, TO THE LIBRARY, TO THE PARKS, TO THE CIVIL WAR MONUMENT. ALL OF THEM WERE STARTED BY PRIVATE PHILANTHROPY. AND HE SAID AFTER HE STOPPED AND TURNED THE IGNITION OFF IN THE CAR, HE SAID, “YOU KNOW, THERE ARE AT LEAST A HUNDRED FAMILIES THAT WERE AS WEALTHY OR WEALTHIER. IMAGINE IF THEY DID THE SAME THING WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITY WE WOULD LIVE IN.” SO THAT LESSON WAS INSTITUTIONAL CHARITY. IT LED ME TO START SO MANY NONPROFIT GROUPS RIGHT FROM THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE. AND IT WASN’T THAT HE DIDN’T CARE ABOUT CHARITY. HE FED A LOT OF HUNGRY PEOPLE COMING INTO THE RESTAURANT FROM THE DEPRESSION IN THE 1930s. NEVER MADE A BIG DEAL OF IT, BUT HE WAS THE KIND OF PERSON WHO BELIEVED THAT CHARITY, THE RIGHT CHARITY, WOULD PREVENT THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

J.Z.: THERE’S A CUTE STORY ABOUT YOUR FATHER ARGUING WITH SOMEBODY ABOUT MONEY
AND ABOUT THE COST OF PEOPLE WANTING TO EARN MORE AND NOT DESERVING IT. THE PERSON SAID, “DOCTOR.” AND YOUR FATHER ASKED HIM, “HOW COME YOU CHARGE SO MUCH AS A DOCTOR?” AND HE SAID, “BECAUSE I HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR THOSE WHO CAN’T PAY, AND THEREFORE…” WHAT DID YOUR FATHER RESPOND?

Nader: MY FATHER SAID, “WELL, IN THAT CASE—WE GIVE A LOT OF FOOD TO POOR PEOPLE, SO IN THAT CASE INSTEAD OF 10 CENTS YOUR COFFEE IS A DOLLAR.” NOW, THE LESSON THERE WAS YOU DON’T GIVE CHARITY ON THE BACK OF ANYONE ELSE. YOU GIVE IT FROM YOUR HEART AND SOUL.

J.Z.: YEAH. THERE’S A QUOTE ABOUT YOUR FATHER AND POLITICAL RIGHTS THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY QUITE IMPORTANT TO GET OUT THERE. HE SAID “IF YOU DO NOT USE YOUR RIGHTS, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR RIGHTS.” AND HE DIDN’T LOSE THEM AND NEITHER DID YOUR MOTHER. THERE’S AN INTERESTING STORY ABOUT YOUR MOM AND PRESCOTT BUSH THAT I LOVE. CAN YOU TELL THAT ONE?

Nader: YEAH. THAT IS THE MOST INSIGHTFUL POLITICAL STATEMENT HE EVER
MADE: “IF YOU DON’T USE YOUR RIGHTS YOU’RE GONNA LOSE YOUR RIGHTS.” ISN’T THAT TRUE THROUGHOUT HISTORY? ISN’T THAT TRUE ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES? PEOPLE WHO DON’T USE THEIR RIGHTS ARE GONNA SUDDENLY FIND THAT THEY’RE GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY.

J.Z.: I ACTUALLY HAVE AN INTERESTING STORY IN THAT REGARD. WE DO THESE “GET OUT
THE VOTE” EVENTS IN EVERY COMMUNITY WHERE WE DO OUR VOTER REGISTRATION WORK. AND AT ONE OF THEM IN CLEVELAND, A REPORTER CAME TO ME AND HE SAID—WE HAD AN EVENT OF, LIKE, 450 PALESTINIAN GROCERS MAINLY AND THEIR FAMILIES COMING. AND CANDIDATES WERE THERE, AND WE HAD AN ARABIC BAND AND THE LIKE. AND HE SAID, “DO YOU DO THIS BECAUSE YOUR PEOPLE COME FROM COUNTRIES WHERE PEOPLE DON’T VOTE?”
AND I SAID, “ACTUALLY, NO. WE ACTUALLY DO IT BECAUSE OUR PEOPLE CAME TO A COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE DON’T VOTE.” AND IN THAT ELECTION, IN THAT PRIMARY ELECTION, 23% OF THE CLEVELAND VOTED.

Nader: THAT’S HIGH COMPARED TO SOME OTHER—

J.Z.: YEAH.

Nader: IT’S GONE DOWN AS LOW AS 9% IN SOME PLACES, YEAH. WELL, HERE’S THE STORY.
THE TOWN HAD A RIVER CALLED MAD RIVER. AND IT WAS WELL-NAMED BECAUSE DURING HURRICANES IT WOULD OVERFLOW ITS BANKS AND DESTROY THE MAIN STREET WHERE THE
STORES WERE AND THE APARTMENTS. AND SO THIS HAPPENED FOR THE THIRD TIME IN 40 YEARS, IN 1955, WITH HURRICANE DIANE. AND IT TOOK 11 LIVES FROM THE TOWN AND DESTROYED MY FATHER’S RESTAURANT AS WELL AS DOZENS OF OTHER STORES. AND SHE HAD ENOUGH. AND SHE SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. ALL THESE POLITICIANS WERE DELAYING THE SOLUTION, WHICH WAS BUILD A DRY DAM NORTH OF TOWN, AND THAT WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM. SO SHE HEARD THAT SENATOR PRESCOTT BUSH, THE GRANDFATHER OF THE PRESIDENT, WAS COMING THROUGH TOWN TO CAMPAIGN. SO SHE STOOD IN LINE—“THANK YOU,” YOU KNOW, HE WAS SHAKING HANDS VERY FAST. SHE COMES UP TO THE FRONT OF THE LINE, SHE GRABS HIS HAND, AND SHE SAID, “SENATOR BUSH, YOU’VE GOT INFLUENCE IN WASHINGTON. YOU’VE GOT TO GET THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO BUILD US A DRY DAM.
WE CAN’T TOLERATE THIS KIND OF DESTRUCTION. AND HE’S READY TO, YOU KNOW, “THANK YOU, THANK YOU,” AND SHE HOLDS ON. SHE DOESN’T LET GO—5 SECONDS, 8 SECONDS, 10 SECONDS. YOU GOT 10 PEOPLE WATCHING THIS, YOU KNOW—THE TENSION IS BUILDING UP.
AND FINALLY HE SAYS, “ALL RIGHT, MRS. NADER. I’LL DO WHAT I CAN TO GET YOU A DRY DAM.” WE GOT A DRY DAM. WE’VE NEVER HAD A FLOOD SINCE. AND WHAT WAS HER LESSON?
WELL, SHE SAID, “IT’S VERY RARE THAT YOU WILL EVER GET CLOSE TO A POLITICIAN,
BUT WHEN YOU DO TO SHAKE THE POLITICIAN’S HAND, AND YOU WANT AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, DON’T LET GO.”

J.Z.: WE’RE GONNA LET YOU GO RIGHT NOW FOR A MINUTE, AND WE’RE GONNA COME RIGHT BACK WITH MORE CONVERSATION. AND WE’RE ACTUALLY GONNA SHIFT TO YOUR MOTHER AND SOME OF HER QUOTES. STAY TUNED WITH MORE OF RALPH NADER AND YOUR CALLS IN THE NEXT SEGMENT. STAY TUNED.
WELCOME BACK. I’M JIM ZOGBY, AND WE’RE TALKING TO RALPH NADER ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK “THE SEVENTEEN TRADITIONS.” IT’S ABOUT HIS LESSONS FROM HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AND LESSONS THAT HE LEARN AND LESSONS THAT ARE SO IMPORTANT THAT CONVEYED THROUGH THE FAMILY. I WANT TO TALK NOW ABOUT YOUR MOM. WE TALKED ABOUT YOUR FATHER IN THE FIRST SEGMENT. AND AS I MENTIONED, YOUR MOTHER WAS A VERY POLITICAL PERSON, AND THE DAM THAT HAS SAVED YOUR COMMUNITY WHERE YOU GREW UP IS EVIDENCE OF THAT. BUT SHE, LIKE MANY MOTHERS, FOCUSED ON VALUE EDUCATION AND ON
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND SELF-WORTH. AND I WANT TO PUT UP A COUPLE OF QUOTES OF HERS ABOUT RESPECT AND TEACHING RESPECT. AND THE FIRST IS A QUITE SIMPLE ONE THAT MY MOM USED TO USE ALL THE TIME, AND IT’S “RESPECT YOURSELF” IS WHAT IT SAYS “AND OTHERS WILL RESPECT YOU.” MY MOTHER WRITING IN AN ARTICLE THAT SHE PUBLISHED IN 1923 IN THE OLD SYRIAN WORLD WAS TALKING ABOUT SHOULD ARABS, SYRIANS, AS THEY WERE CALLED AT THE TIME, RESPECT THEIR TRADITION AND THEIR
HERITAGE OR NOT, OR SHOULD THEY FORGET IT? AND SHE SAID IF WE DON’T RESPECT IT THEY OTHERS WILL NEVER RESPECT US. IT’S THE SAME THING. THERE MUST BE AN OLD LEBANESE MOUNTAIN PROVERB IN THERE, IN THERE SOMEWHERE. IF MORE THAN ONE MOTHER USED IT, IT’S GOT TO HAVE A TRADITION. THE OTHER ONE IS AGAIN ABOUT PARENTS, AND IT’S ABOUT PARENTS DISCIPLINING. AND HERE’S WHAT YOUR MOTHER SAID.
SHE SAID “IF PARENTS DON’T DISCIPLINE, THEIR CHILDREN WON’T RESPECT THEM. AMERICANS ARE AFRAID OF THEIR CHILDREN.” WHAT’S THE LESSON IN THERE? TALK TO ME ABOUT WHERE THAT WAS USED, HOW IT WAS USED, AND WHAT SHE WAS SAYING.

Nader: WELL, SHE USED TO SAY THE EARLIER THE BETTER, THE EASIER. THAT IS,
YOU GOT TO A CHILD AT AGE 3 OR 4, YOU’LL HAVE A LOT EASIER TIME—IF YOU TRY TO WAIT UNTIL THAT CHILD IS 14. SO SHE WOULD OF COURSE MIX IN THE COMMUNITY AND SHE WOULD WATCH YOUNG PARENTS WITH 14, 15 YEAR OLDS REALLY GOING OUT OF ORBIT. YOU KNOW, VERY DISRESPECTFUL AND SHOUTING AND CURSING THEIR PARENTS. AND THE PARENTS WERE TERRIFIED OF THEM. LIKE, IF THEY REALLY CAME DOWN HARD AND DISCIPLINED THEM, WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE THESE KIDS WILL DO—DRUGS AND STREET. AND SO IT TENDS TO MAGNIFY ITSELF, AND THE YOUNGSTERS SEE THAT, AND THEY’D START LAYING THEIR TRIP ON THEIR PARENTS. THEY START TIPPING THAT BALANCE OF AUTHORITY AGAINST
THEM. SO SHE WAS - THAT’S WHAT SHE MEANT WHEN SHE SAID “DON’T BE
AFRAID OF YOUR CHILDREN,” BECAUSE THEY WILL SENSE THAT, AND THEY’LL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, AND THEN YOU’LL LOSE CONTROL OVER THEM, AND THEN THEY WON’T HAVE CONTROL OVER THEMSELVES. THEY’LL FALL IN THE WRONG CROWD. THEY’LL GET INTO TROUBLE, ET CETERA.

J.Z.: THERE ARE MANY WAYS THEY WOULD TEACH RESPECT.

Nader: YEAH. ONE IS BY JUST EXAMPLE-JUST WATCHING THEM OPERATE IN THE COMMUNITY. THEY WEREN’T AGGRESSIVE PEOPLE. I MEAN, YOU THINK FROM WHAT THEY DID, LIKE WITH SENATOR PRESCOTT BUSH. MY MOTHER WAS VERY CASUAL. ON ONE DAY—DAVID HALBERSTAM, THE FAMOUS REPORTER, GREW UP—HE WAS A BOYHOOD CHUM. AND HIS MOTHER AND MINE WERE FRIENDS. AND ONE DAY, BLANCHE HALBERSTAM CALLED UP MY MOTHER AND SAID, “YOUR SON IS ON THE COVER OF “TIME,” MRS. NADER.” AND MY MOTHER SAID, “OH, REALLY? THAT’S INTERESTING. I THINK I’LL GO OUT AND GET A COPY.” AND DAVID HALBERSTAM SAID IF HE WAS ON THE COVER OF “TIME,” HIS FAMILY WOULD HAVE EMPTIED OUT EVERY NEWSSTAND IN LITCHFIELD COUNTY. SO THAT’S HOW MODEST SHE WAS. SO YOU SEE, WE OBSERVED THEM AND ABSORBED THAT KIND OF THING. LIKE SWELL HEADS—THEY WERE REALLY DOWN ON SWELL HEADS. LIKE MY FATHER WOULD SAY WHEN I BECAME WELL-KNOWN, “IF THERE’S SOMETHING MUCH HARDER THAN BECOMING WELL-KNOWN, IT’S LEARNING
HOW TO ENDURE IT.” IN OTHER WORDS, STICK WITH WHAT YOUR PURPOSE IS. DON’T GET A SWELL HEAD. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST WATCH AFTER A WHILE, AND YOU ABSORB. AND ALSO THEY TAUGHT THE TWO OLDER CHILDREN TO TEACH THE TWO YOUNGER CHILDREN. I HAD A GREAT BIG BROTHER.

J.Z.: THERE WAS ALSO A GREAT DEAL OF NEGATIVITY ATTACHED TO SELF-INDULGENCE, TO LACK OF SELF-DISCIPLINE, TO SHOWING OFF, ET CETERA.

Nader: OH, DEFINITELY. I MEAN, THAT’S HOW THEY DEFLATED US. WE’D RUSH HOME FROM THE LIBRARY AND SAY, “OH, I’VE READ SEVEN BOOKS THIS WEEK, DAD.” AND HE SAYS, “REALLY? THAT’S JUST PAGE-TURNING. THE KEY IS WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THE BOOKS?
WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE BOOKS?” SO YOU SEE, JUST EVERYTHING WAS ABOUT REALITY. YOU KNOW, RHETORIC, POMPOSITY, THEY WEREN’T INTO THAT AT ALL.

J.Z.: AND INSTEAD OF DEFLATING SELF-RESPECT, IT ACTUALLY CREATES A DIFFERENT KIND OF SELF-RESPECT.

Nader: YEAH. BECAUSE THEY’D OPEN UP, GEE, YOU KNOW, REALLY IT ISN’T HOW MANY BOOKS YOU READ, IS IT? IT’S WHAT YOU GET OUT OF THEM.

J.Z.: YOU HAVE A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT EATING, BOTH IN TERMS OF THE HEALTH, BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF THE CENTRALITY OF THE MEAL—
Nader: YES.

J.Z.: IN FAMILY LIFE. SO MUCH OF THE LIFE IN YOUR FAMILY WAS SPENT AT THE KITCHEN TABLE. AND YET THERE’S TWO THINGS IN PARTICULAR THAT I WANTED TO
POINT OUT, 2 QUOTES. ONE IS ABOUT EATING ITSELF AND FOOD AND THE PROBLEM OF FUSSY KIDS AND FOOD. AND HERE’S THE QUOTE THAT I PULLED OUT FROM THERE.
IT SAYS, “YOUNG CHILDREN DON’T KNOW WHAT’S GOOD FOR THEM. THEY DON’T HAVE TO LIKE WHAT THEY EAT, THEY JUST HAVE TO EAT IT.”

Nader: THAT’S MY MOTHER. MY PARENTS ATE WHAT WE ATE, AND WE ATE WHAT THEY ATE—NO DOUBLE STANDARD.

J.Z.: MOM USED TO SAY – I’D SAY, “I’M HUNGRY, BUT I DON’T WANT TO EAT
THAT.” SHE’D SAY, “IF YOU WERE REALLY HUNGRY, YOU’D EAT A SHOE.”

Nader: YOU’RE DARN RIGHT.

J.Z.: ONE NIGHT SHE MADE MUJADDARAH, AND I WOULDN’T EAT IT. I WENT TO BED. I WOKE UP THE NEXT MORNING, IT WAS ON THE TABLE FOR BREAKFAST UNTIL I ATE IT.

Nader: THAT’S LENTILS, FOR THOSE WHO DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT WORD. YEAH.

J.Z.: DISCIPLINE WAS REAL.

Nader: IT WAS REAL. AND FOR THE MOST PART WE DIDN’T FIDGET ABOUT FOOD, WHICH IS WHY WHEN WE WERE AT THE TABLE, WE COULD CONVERSE AND JOKE AND TALK ABOUT ALL KINDS OF ISSUES, AND THEY WOULD RELAY HISTORICAL SAGAS. BUT ONE TIME I DID REBEL. NOW, I WAS ALMOST 8 YEARS OLD. AND MY MOTHER PUT CARROTS, RADISHES, AND CELERY ON THE TABLE FOR AN APPETIZER. AND I SAID TO HER, “MOTHER, I DON’T WANT THIS. I DON’T LIKE IT. I DON’T WANT IT. I DON’T WANT IT. I DON’T LIKE IT.” AND SHE SAID, “WHO IS I, RALPH?” AND I SAID, “WHAT DO YOU MEAN? IT’S ME, RALPH.”
“NO, NO, NO. YOU KEEP SAYING I DON’T LIKE, I DON’T WANT. WHO IS I? IS I YOUR LIVER? IS I YOUR KIDNEY, YOUR HEART, YOUR LUNG, YOUR BRAIN? WHO IS I WHEN YOU SAY: I DON’T LIKE?” WELL, I WAS TOTALLY FLUMMOXED BY THEN. I COULDN’T UNDERSTAND. SO SHE LEANS DOWN WITH HER SWEET SMILE AND SAYS, “I THINK I KNOW
WHO I IS. I IS YOUR TONGUE. AND WHY ARE YOU TURNING YOUR TONGUE AGAINST YOUR BRAIN? THESE VEGETABLES ARE GOOD FOR YOU. EAT UP.” NOW JUST THINK OF THE INSIGHT HERE. SHE COULD HAVE SAID, “THE WORLD’S LEADING NUTRITIONIST SAY THAT THESE
VEGETABLES WILL MAKE YOU STRONG, AND YOU CAN RUN FASTER.” INSTEAD SHE MADE ME THINK OF, GEE, IS MY TONGUE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY BRAIN? SHE INTERNALIZED IT,
AND I NEVER FORGOT IT.

J.Z.: LET’S—ONE LAST QUOTE ABOUT THIS. IT’S NOT EXACTLY RELATED TO THE MEAL, BUT IT’S ABOUT THE TALKING AT THE TABLE.

Nader: MM-HMM.

J.Z.: AND IT’S ANOTHER QUOTE FROM YOUR MOTHER. SHE SAID, “THE MORE YOU TALK, THE LESS YOU HAVE TO SAY. THE MORE YOU LISTEN, THE MORE SENSIBLE WILL BE WHAT YOU SAY.” THERE WAS GREAT EMPHASIS PLACED ON - YOU WERE CHALLENGED IN
CRITICAL THINKING BY YOUR PARENTS, BUT YOU WERE ALSO CHALLENGED TO LISTEN.

Nader: RIGHT. BECAUSE WHEN THEY TOOK US TO TOWN MEETINGS OR TO COURTROOMS IN
THE TOWN, WE LEARNED TO LISTEN. SO WE DIDN’T ALWAYS FIDGET AND, YOU KNOW, “LET’S GO. LET’S LEAVE.” AND BY LEARNING TO LISTEN, WE BECAME OBSERVERS, AND WE JUST SOAKED IT IN FROM THE ADULTS. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES WHEN THERE’S GUESTS AT A DINNER TABLE, THE KIDS RUN THE SHOW. I MEAN, THEY DOMINATE. THE ADULTS HAVE HARDLY TIME TO DISCUSS. IT’S THE KIDS THAT EVERYBODY IS REACTING TO. AND THE KIDS SEE THAT, AND THEY START GETTING RAMBUNCTIOUS. THAT WASN’T THE CASE IN OUR-WE LEARNED. AND THAT’S WHY THE FIRST TRADITION, AHEAD OF HEALTH AND HISTORY AND SIMPLE ENJOYMENTS AND CHARITY AND PATRIOTISM AND WORK, ALL OF THAT, WAS THE TRADITION OF LEARNING HOW TO LISTEN. AND PATRIOTISM, BY THE WAY, WAS IMPROVING YOUR COUNTRY. THEY NEVER DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN FAMILY VALUES, CIVIC-IMPROVEMENT VALUES, AND BUSINESS VALUES. THEY WERE ALL ONE. AND SO THIS IDEA OF FLAG WAVING WITHOUT IMPROVING YOUR COUNTRY AND STANDING UP TO INJUSTICE WAS NOT THEIR CUP OF TEA. IN FACT, MY FATHER CONSTANTLY HAD TO REMIND SOME OF THE FACTORY WORKERS WHO WERE YAHOOS, YOU KNOW, AND THEY’D ALWAYS BANTER AND SAY, “WHY ARE YOU
ALWAYS CRITICIZING?” AND HE’D SAY, “DO YOU KNOW THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE?”
“YEAH, OF COURSE. WE LEARNED IT IN THE FIRST GRADE.” “WELL, WHAT ARE THE LAST FEW WORDS? DO YOU WANT TO TELL ME THE LAST FEW WORDS? YOU WANT TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE HERE AT THE COUNTER IN THE RESTAURANT THE LAST FEW WORDS?” AND THEY HAD TO SAY, “WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.” AND THEN HE HAD THEM. HE’D SAY,
“REMEMBER, IT’S NOT LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR A FEW, IT’S LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.” HE HAD A WAY, JIM, OF SUMMARIZING THINGS. HE ONCE ASKED US AT THE TABLE, “WHY WILL CAPITALISM ALWAYS SURVIVE?” AND, WELL, WE THREW OUT SOME IDEAS. HERE WAS HIS ANSWER: “CAPITALISM WILL ALWAYS SURVIVE BECAUSE SOCIALISM WILL ALWAYS
BE USED TO SAVE IT.” THAT’S BAILING OUT COMPANIES, RIGHT? CORPORATE SUBSIDIES,
CORPORATE WELFARE.

J.Z.: HE ALSO HAD SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT DICTATORSHIPS AND WHY DICTATORS SURVIVE
AND WHY THEY PASS IT ON TO THEIR CHILDREN.

Nader: YEAH. HE SAID BECAUSE THE FEAR, THE FEAR OF A DICTATOR. YOU KNOW, DICTATORS ARE AFRAID BECAUSE THEY BRUTALIZE PEOPLE, LETS THEM ENTRENCH.
AND ONE OF HIS LITTLE UTOPIAN THINGS—HE SAID, “WHAT ABOUT AN ISLAND IN THE
INDIAN OCEAN, NICE TROPICAL ISLAND WHERE WE CAN GUARANTEE SAFE PASSAGE TO THESE DICTATORS AND KEEP THEM ON THE ISLAND? THEY’D LOSE THEIR FEAR, BUT THEN THEY’D BE REPLACED WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE, YOU KNOW, FAIRER TO THEIR PEOPLE, AND THEY COULD BE STUDIED TO SEE HOW DOES ONE MAN DOMINATE A COUNTRY WITH 50 OR 100 OR 200 MILLION PEOPLE? AND THIS ISLAND WOULD BE A SOURCE OF THE STUDY.” WELL,
YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW MANY CONVERSATIONS THAT GENERATED IN THE GRADE SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL. IT WAS A WONDERFUL TIME.

J.Z.: LISTEN, I WANT TO GET YOU OUT THERE INTO THE CONVERSATION. IF YOU’RE CALLING FROM OVERSEAS, THE NUMBER IS 001-202-842-5056. AND IF YOU’RE HERE IN THE U.S., IT’S 1-800-528-2090. I KNOW I’VE DOMINATED MUCH OF THE CONVERSATION WITH RALPH TODAY, BUT THAT’S BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH IN THE BOOK I WANTED TO
TALK ABOUT. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK “THE SEVENTEEN TRADITIONS.”
I’LL HOLD IT UP. I KNOW THAT THEY’VE GOT A SCREEN OF IT TO SHOW YOU.
BUT I’D LIKE YOU TO FOCUS, IF YOU COULD, QUESTIONS ON THE BOOK AND ON TRADITIONS MAYBE IN YOUR OWN FAMILY AND VALUES THAT YOU LEARNED FROM YOUR PARENTS THAT MIGHT BE BEING LOST AND THAT YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT. THE NUMBERS AGAIN ARE UP ON THE SCREEN. GIVE US A CALL. A COUPLE MORE QUOTES, ACTUALLY, FROM YOUR PARENTS THAT I THINK ARE REALLY QUITE STUNNING. ONE IS YOUR FATHER’S QUOTE ABOUT BOOKS
AND ABOUT WRITING AND READING BOOKS. AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY QUITE CLEVER,
AS MANY OF HIS QUOTES WERE. THIS IS: “IMAGINE.” HE SAID, “WHAT A BARGAIN BOOKS ARE FOR READERS. THE AUTHOR SPENDS MONTHS OR YEARS WRITING, YOU REAP THE
BENEFITS IN JUST A FEW HOURS.”

Nader: THAT WAS A STUNNER. THAT MADE US REALLY RESPECT BOOKS, YOU SEE.

J.Z.: YEAH.

Nader: YEAH. WE HAD A LOT OF BOOKS AT HOME. AND HE READ VERY QUICKLY.
HE WAS A VERY FAST READER. AND HE WOULD ALWAYS TURN WHAT HE READ INTO A CONVERSATION.

J.Z.: DID HE READ ARABIC AS WELL?

Nader: YEAH. YEAH, OF COURSE.

J.Z.: AND WHEN HE WAS - DID HE GET ARABIC NEWSPAPERS?

Nader: YES.

J.Z.: AND SO HE FOLLOWED THE POLITICS OF THE MIDDLE EAST AS WELL?

Nader: YEAH. IN THOSE DAYS, YOU KNOW, IN THE THIRTIES, FORTIES, THE NEWSPAPER THAT MOST IMMIGRANTS GOT WAS [ARAB WORD].

J.Z.: YEAH.

Nader: IT WAS PUBLISHED IN NEW YORK, AND IT WOULD COME LIKE SIX PAGES.
AND IT WOULD BE DONE BEFORE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IN AN HOUR. HE’D DEVOUR IT.

J.Z.: AND ONE FINAL THING FROM ME. AND THEN WE’RE GONNA GET TO SOME CALLS BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE HOLDING. AND WAS ON THRIFT.
I OFTEN WONDER ABOUT THIS BECAUSE OUR PARENTS’ GENERATION GREW UP IN THE DEPRESSION, AND THE DEPRESSION WAS FORMATIVE AS WAS WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

Nader: YEAH.

J.Z.: AND THE EXPERIENCE OF THAT. I MEAN, THIS WAS A GENERATION THAT CAME WITH NOTHING, BUT RESPECTED NOTHING, AND RESPECTED, THEREFORE, SOMETHING SO THEY DIDN’T WASTE IT, AND THEN WHEN THE DEPRESSION HIT THEY KNEW HOW TO ADAPT.

Nader: EXACTLY.

J.Z.: YOUR FATHER LAMENTED AT ONE POINT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU OBSERVE,
AND IT’S A QUOTE FROM YOU IN THE BOOK, YOU SAID, “DAD OBSERVED THAT
THRIFT AND THRIFTY WERE WORDS HE USED TO HEAR ALL THE TIME, BUT HE WAS HEARING THEM LESS AND LESS.” AND CLEARLY TODAY, IT SIMPLY DOESN’T EXIST. WE LIVE IN A THROWAWAY CULTURE.

Nader: YEAH, A DISPOSABLE ECONOMY. YEAH. IT CAME FROM THE DEPRESSION, NUMBER ONE. AND IT CAME FROM FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT IN WORLD WAR II URGING PEOPLE TO
SAVE THINGS LIKE MY FATHER WOULD HAVE A BIG BALL OF STRING AND ALUMINUM FOIL AND TO HAVE A VICTORY GARDEN TO GROW FOOD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS RATIONING OF FOOD AND FUEL IN WORLD WAR II. OUT OF THAT CAME WHAT NOW IS CALLED RECYCLING, RIGHT-PART OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT. THE SAME WITH—THE SAME HAPPENED IN—THERE’S A TRADITION OF SCARCITY IN THE BOOK. THEY DID NOT OVER-GIVE US. THEY DIDN’T GIVE US A LOT OF THINGS. THEY GAVE US THE NECESSITIES. BUT WHEN DAD GAVE ME A FIRST BASE MITT, HE DID NOT A YEAR LATER GIVE ME A CATCHER’S MITT OR A SECOND BASE MITT. I HAD TO TAKE CARE OF THAT FIRST BASE MITT. SO WE DIDN’T HAVE CLOSETS AND GARAGES FULL OF DISCARDED TOYS AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS. THEREFORE,
WE LEARNED TO REALLY REPAIR THINGS AND TREASURE THEM MORE, WHEREAS KIDS TODAY, WHEN THEY’RE GIVEN TOO MUCH—I KNOW THERE’S A LOT OF POVERTY IN THE COUNTRY—BUT THE KIDS WHO ARE BETTER OFF ARE GIVEN TOO MUCH. THEY DON’T APPRECIATE IT. THEY TAKE THIS HUGE EXPENSIVE TOY, AND THEY’RE TIRED OF IT IN AN HOUR.

J.Z.: I NOTED WITH NEPHEWS AND NIECES SOMETIMES THAT THEY WILL GET TOYS OF ALL TYPES AND END UP BANGING WITH POTS AND PANS ANYWAY, MUCH TO THE LAMENT TO THE PARENTS BECAUSE THE FISHER PRICE STUFF JUST ISN’T USED.

Nader: WELL, THERE’S A BOOK OUT NOW TEACHING BOYS TO PLAY MARBLES. AND THE BOY IS, “HEY, THIS IS REALLY FUN. WHY DO I HAVE TO WATCH SOME SCREEN? I CAN GO OUT WITH THE KIDS AND PLAY, YOU KNOW, MARBLES.”

J.Z.: LET’S GO TO NEW MEXICO. CALLER, FIRST CALLER. YES, HI.

Caller: THANKS VERY MUCH, JIM AND RALPH. A GREAT PLEASURE TO BE
SPEAKING WITH YOU. AS AN AMERICAN OF ARMENIAN DESCENT WITH TWO SETS OF GRANDPARENTS THAT WENT THROUGH A GENOCIDE AND CAME OUT WHOLE SOMEHOW, I HAVE
A DEEP APPRECIATION, AND OUR FAMILY DOES, FOR THE FAMILY TABLE AND THE TRUE SACRAMENT OF A MEAL TOGETHER, SO I REALLY ENJOYED HEARING ABOUT THAT. AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY I THINK YOUR DAD HAD IT RIGHT ON THE BUTTON WHEN HE SAID, PARAPHRASING, THAT WE EITHER SPREAD THE WEALTH OR WE SPREAD THE MISERY. AND I JUST WANTED TO KNOW, RALPH, I’VE HEARD YOU SPEAK ON THE SUBJECT BEFORE, ABOUT THE ASSAULT ON THE MIDDLE CLASS. AND I THINK THAT’S A BIG PART OF WHAT MAKES IT MORE OF A STRUGGLE TODAY TO RAISE A FAMILY IN A COHESIVE FASHION. I’M A FATHER OF THREE, AND YOU KNOW, THEY’RE ALL IN SCHOOL STILL. AND WE DO OUR BEST TO GET TO THAT TABLE TOGETHER. BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE’RE BOTH—MY WIFE AND I BOTH WORK FULL-TIME, AND IT’S STILL HARD TO MAKE ENDS MEET. SO IF YOU COULD JUST SPEAK TO THAT, I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

J.Z.: GREAT QUESTION. VERY THOUGHTFUL. THANK YOU.

Nader: SEE, JIM, WE SHOULD NOW, WITH OUR MATURE ECONOMY, BE ABLE TO HAVE A
MIDDLE CLASS STANDARD OF LIVING WITH ONE BREAD WINNER—ONE BREAD WINNER.
WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN CONNECTICUT, THE DEFINITION OF MIDDLE CLASS—A TEXTILE WORKER COULD OWN A SIX-ROOM HOUSE ON A 2%, 30-YEAR MORTGAGE AND A SECONDHAND CAR. YOU COULD HAVE THREE TEXTILE WORKERS TODAY AND HAVE TROUBLE DOING THAT.
SO WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE MORE AND MORE MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY HAVE TO COMMUTE FURTHER AND FURTHER IN ORDER TO MAKE ENDS MEET, AND THEY STILL CAN’T MAKE ENDS MEET BECAUSE ONE OUT OF EVERY THREE WORKERS IN THIS COUNTRY IS MAKING UNDER $10.50 AN HOUR—A LOT OF THEM $6, $7, $9, WAL-MART WAGES. SO HE’S QUITE RIGHT THAT WAY. WE’RE BEING CONSUMED BY THE NEED JUST TO PAY OUR BILLS. AND THERE’S A LOT MORE TO LIFE INCLUDING FAMILY AND CHILDREN AND COMMUNITY AND CIVIC ENGAGEMENT AND LOOKING OUT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. BUT WHEN 1% OF THE RICHEST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY OWN THE EQUIVALENT FINANCIAL WEALTH OF THE BOTTOM 95%,
THAT’S WHERE A LOT OF PROBLEMS COME FROM. THE FEW DECIDE FOR THE MANY BECAUSE THE FEW CONTROL THE WEALTH. BY THE WAY, WORLDWIDE—I JUST SAW THIS FIGURE—THE 350 RICHEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD HAVE WEALTH EQUIVALENT OF THE BOTTOM THREE
BILLION—THREE BILLION.

J.Z.: LET’S GO TO SAUDI ARABIA FOR ANOTHER CALL. CALLER? QUESTION.

Caller: HELLO? HELLO?

J.Z.: HI.

Caller: HI, JIM.

J.Z.: HOW ARE YOU?

Caller: FINE, THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE - I WOULD LIKE TO TELL MR. NADER THAT I’M ONE OF HIS FANS, AND I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER TO TRANSLATE HIS BOOK INTO ARABIC.

Nader: THERE YOU ARE.

J.Z.: THAT’S A GREAT OFFER.

Caller: I’M A SCHOOL TEACHER AND-AS WELL AS MY WIFE. AND WE CAN OFFER TO TRANSLATE HIS BOOK AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE KIDS IN THE MIDDLE EAST SEE WHAT SUCCESS IS. I BELIEVE MR. NADER IS A GREAT SUCCESS STORY.

J.Z.: THANK YOU.

Nader: CONTACT CAL MORGAN AT HARPERCOLLINS IN NEW YORK CITY.

J.Z.: OR LISTEN, JUST SEND ME—OUR E-MAIL ADDRESS IS GONNA GO UP AT THE END OF THE SHOW, MY E-MAIL. SEND ME YOUR INFORMATION. I’LL FORWARD IT TO YOU, RALPH.
AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE OFFER. I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THERE ARE LESSONS IN THE BOOK NOT ONLY FOR AMERICA, BUT FOR PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT ARE MODERNIZING
AND ARE IN THIS VERY GAP THAT WE’RE IN AND HAVE BEEN IN OVER THE LAST 30, 40 YEARS OF DEALING WITH TRADITION AND MODERNITY AND HOW TO RECONCILE THE TWO.

Nader: YOU’RE RIGHT. NOT JUST MIDDLE EAST. CHINA IS GOING THROUGH A WRENCHING TWO-CULTURE SITUATION WHERE THE OLD CULTURE IS BEING SHOVED ASIDE LIKE IT’S NOT MODERN, AND THEY’RE MIMICKING ALMOST EVERYTHING FROM THE UNITED STATES. SO MORE NURSING HOMES, LESS CARE FOR THE ELDERLY, YOU KNOW. MORE THIS, MORE THAT—FRANTIC-LIKE, WHERE THE WHOLE WISDOM OF CHINESE CULTURE IS BASICALLY BEING
PUSHED ASIDE. AND SO THIS BOOK DEALS WITH THAT. WHEN MY MOTHER SAID THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS, THAT REQUIRES THOUGHT. IT REQUIRES SELF-CONFIDENCE IN YOUR OWN JUDGMENT. IT REQUIRES A RESPECT FOR YOUR CULTURE AS WELL AS THE NEW CULTURE THAT YOU’RE TRYING TO INTERACT WITH.

J.Z.: LET’S GO TO TEXAS FOR A FINAL CALL IN THIS SEGMENT. AND WE’LL BE BACK IN JUST A MINUTE AFTER THIS CALL AND ANSWER. TEXAS? HELLO.

Caller: GOOD AFTERNOON, GENTLEMEN. IT’S A PLEASURE TO SPEAK TO YOU BOTH THIS AFTERNOON. MR. NADER, I WANTED TO GET YOUR COMMENT ON THIS. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES—I CAN’T SPEAK ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE I HAVEN’T LIVED THERE—BUT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES IT SEEMS TO ME CREATES MANY OF OUR PROBLEMS, AND THEN THE ONLY SOLUTIONS THEY PROVIDE ARE THE ONES THAT FURTHER ENTRENCH THE ESTABLISHMENT AS WE NOW KNOW IT. AND I SEE THIS AS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE DISINTEGRATION OF OUR FAMILY VALUES, OF OUR SOCIETY, AND IT APPEARS TO ME AS THOUGH IT’S ALL – BASICALLY, IT’S MOST GREED ON GREED. I’D LIKE TO HEAR YOUR—
J.Z.: GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU’RE THINKING OF.

Caller: WELL, JUST LOOK AT THE WAR ON DRUGS. IT’S OBVIOUS IT’S A FAILURE.
IT’S OBVIOUS THAT IT’S ONLY CREATING MORE OF A PROBLEM BECAUSE ONCE YOU TAKE A PERSON AND PUT THEM IN PRISON FOR A SMALL AMOUNT OF DRUG POSSESSION, THEY’RE BASICALLY NON-EQUITABLE IN THE SOCIETY FROM NOW ON, AT LEAST HERE IN AMERICA.
LOOK AT THE WAR ON TERROR. WE’RE CREATING MORE TERRORISTS THAN WE’RE HELPING.
WE’RE GIVING UP OUR FREEDOMS IN IGNORANCE IN MARCHING TOWARD A TOTALITARIAN SOCIETY. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR COMMENT ON THAT.

J.Z.: THANK YOU.

Nader: WELL, I THINK THE MORE THAT PEOPLE LOSE CONTROL OF THEIR GOVERNMENT THE MORE CORPORATIONS TAKE THEIR PLACE. THIS IS A CORPORATE GOVERNMENT. AND WHEN GOVERNMENT RESPONDS TO THE BIG OIL COMPANIES, THE DRUG COMPANIES OR AUTO COMPANIES, A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO BE IGNORED LIKE GREATER FUEL EFFICIENCY, LIKE REASONABLE PRICING FOR DRUGS THAT ARE EFFECTIVE, LIKE LOOKING OUT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, LIKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, LIKE LIVABLE WAGES. YOU KNOW, IT’S GOOD TO ASK OURSELVES DO WE REALLY HAVE A GOVERNMENT OR IS IT JUST A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE “FORTUNE 500”? AND NOT ONLY DO THEY HAVE 35,000 LOBBYISTS HERE IN TOWN AND
10,000 POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEES FUNNELING MONEY TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE AND CAMPAIGNS, AND THEY PUT THEIR OWN EXECUTIVES IN HIGH GOVERNMENT POSITIONS, BUT MORE IMPORTANT IS THE GOVERNMENT IS CONTRACTING OUT ITS OWN ACTIVITIES. MORE AND MORE GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS ARE BEING CONTRACTED OUT TO COMPANIES LIKE HALLIBURTON OR OTHER CORPORATIONS. SO THAT’S WHY THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY DON’T REPRESENT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFLICTED BY THE PROBLEMS, AND CAMPAIGNS, YOU KNOW, ARE A CASH RACE—BIG MONEY, YOU KNOW. SO WE HAVE TO RECOVER THAT. AND THE WAY TO RECOVER IT, ONE WAY, IS TO STRENGTHEN THE FAMILY UNIT WHERE CHILDREN GROW UP LEARNING CITIZEN SKILLS, WORKING WITH THEIR PARENTS TO IMPROVE PROBLEMS IN THEIR – YOU KNOW, DEAL WITH PROBLEMS IN THE COMMUNITIES BECAUSE WE GOT PLENTY OF SOLUTIONS ON THE SHELF. AND THAT THEN DEVELOPS LEADERSHIP. IT DEVELOPS A BETTER BRAND OF POLITICS. BETTER PEOPLE RUN FOR POLITICS.

J.Z.: WE’RE GONNA BE RIGHT BACK, RALPH. STAY TUNED. MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION AND MORE OF YOUR CALLS IN THE FINAL SEGMENT IN JUST A MINUTE.
I’M JIM ZOGBY, AND YOU’RE WATCHING “VIEWPOINT.” WE’RE TALKING TO RALPH NADER ABOUT HIS BOOK “THE SEVENTEEN TRADITIONS,” AND WE’RE TAKING YOUR CALLS. THERE’S
ONE STORY, THOUGH, A STORY IN THE SECTION ON EDUCATION AND ARGUMENT, AND I WANT TO JUST GET A QUOTE UP ACTUALLY THAT WE MISSED A LITTLE WHILE AGO FROM YOUR FATHER ON THE AREA OF INDEPENDENT THINKING. WE DID - YOU MENTIONED IT AT ONE POINT, BUT I WANT TO PUT IT UP. HE SAID, “DID YOU LEARN HOW TO BELIEVE TODAY IN SCHOOL,” WHEN HE ASKED YOU WHAT YOU LEARNED, “OR DID YOU LEARN HOW TO THINK?”
AND HE ALSO SAID, “YOUR BEST TEACHER IS YOUR LAST MISTAKE.” BUT IT’S THE OTHER ONE, IT’S THE DID YOU LEARN HOW TO BELIEVE OR HOW TO THINK? YOUR PARENTS
CHALLENGED YOU ALL THE TIME ABOUT IDEAS AND HOW TO SORT OF THINK CRITICALLY THROUGH A PROBLEM TOWARDS SOLUTION. AND THERE’S ONE STORY THAT I KNOW YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE IT LED TO YOUR ENVIRONMENTAL THINKING. AND IT WAS YOUR MOTHER CHALLENGING YOU ON THE ENVIRONMENT, ON THE OUTDOORS AND THE VALUE OF THEM TO YOUR LIFE.

Nader: YEAH. HERE’S HOW SHE DID IT, AND HERE’S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A FAMILY EXPERIENCE-AND THERE ARE MANY FAMILIES THAT CAN PUT THESE EXPERIENCES DOWN—CAN CHANGE A PERSON. WE WERE OUT ON A SPRING DAY IN THE BACK YARD—FOUR CHILDREN, TWO BOYS, TWO GIRLS, AND MY PARENTS. AND IT WAS A BEAUTIFUL SPRING DAY, AND MY MOTHER SAID, “OK, QUESTION TIME. HOW MUCH ARE A DOZEN EGGS, A POUND OF BUTTER, A BUSHEL OF APPLES?” AND WE WONDERED WHY SHE WAS ASKING US THIS BECAUSE WE WERE A RESTAURANT FAMILY, AND WE KNEW THE ANSWERS. SO SHE WENT THROUGH A LIST OF THOSE SUPERMARKET ITEMS, AND THEN SHE LOOKED UP AT THE SKY AND SHE SAID, “HOW MUCH IS THAT SUNSHINE?” AND THEN SHE SAID, ‘ISN’T THAT COOL BREEZE NICE? WHAT’S THE DOLLAR VALUE OF THAT? AND LOOK AT THOSE ROBINS AND BLUE JAYS SINGING FOR US.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR PRICE IS?” WOW. YOU KNOW? IT JUST SUNK IN—AND IT SUNK IN. AND ISN’T THAT THE NATURE OF ENVIRONMENTAL VALUES THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE PRICELESS, THAT ARE VERY VALUABLE EVEN THOUGH THEY DON’T HAVE A DOLLAR, AND THEY SHOULD NEVER BE FOR SALE? SO THEY TAUGHT US THAT IN A DEMOCRACY THERE ARE THING THAT SHOULD NEVER BE FOR SALE. CHILDHOOD SHOULD NEVER BE COMMERCIALIZED. SCHOOLS SHOULDN’T BE FOR SALE. ELECTIONS SHOULDN’T BE FOR SALE.
GOVERNMENT SHOULDN’T BE FOR SALE. IT’S JUST THAT SO MANY FAMILIES HAVE THESE LITTLE MOMENTS. WHEN THEY DON’T PUT THEM DOWN AND CONVEY THEM TO THE NEXT GENERATION, THERE’S A RUPTURE OF ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT TRANSMISSION.

J.Z.: YOU WRITE POIGNANTLY ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND ABOUT THE WONDER THAT YOU DERIVE FROM NATURE. AND A LITTLE STORY CAME TO MY HEAD WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT LIVING IN THE CITY AND THE ABSENCE OF STARS. AND IT WAS MY LITTLE GIRL, WHEN WE WENT AWAY, MAYBE THE FIRST TIME WHEN SHE WAS OLD ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND. SHE LOOKED UP AT NIGHT AND SAW THE STARS AND DIDN’T KNOW WHAT IT WAS. AND I ACTUALLY FELT A SENSE OF LOSS THAT I’D DENIED HER THAT BECAUSE IN WASHINGTON, THE NIGHT SKY LOOKS LIKE YOU’RE ON MARS OR SOMETHING. YOU LOOK UP AND THERE’S THIS ORANGE HAZE, AND THERE’S NO STARS, AND -

Nader: NOT ONLY NO STARS, BUT THERE ARE MILLIONS OF CHILDREN GROWING UP IN CITIES WHO HAVE NEVER HAD THEIR FEET ON SOIL, JUST ASPHALT AND CEMENT. THAT’S WHY WE START THE BOOK WITH THE BIG ROCK THAT MEANT SO MUCH TO ME, THE BIG MAPLE TREE.

J.Z.: LET’S GO TO UAE, THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES FOR A CALL. CALLER?
HELLO. YOUR QUESTION.

Caller: OK.

J.Z.: HELLO?

Caller: YES, YES.

J.Z.: YOUR QUESTION.

Caller: YEAH, HELLO?

J.Z.: YES, HI.

Caller: I’M CALLING FROM UAE. I’M JUST ASKING MR. NADER, WHAT THE ADVICE HE GIVES US FOR MAKING PARENTING MORE FUN AND STICKS TO TRADITIONS IN DEALING WITH OUR CHILDREN.

J.Z.: THANK YOU.

Nader: IN WHAT SITUATIONS?

J.Z.: HOW TO MAKE PARENTING MORE FUN AND HOW TO MAKE IT STICK TO
YOUR TRADITIONS.

Nader: OH. WELL, LET’S TAKE AN EXAMPLE, LIKE MY MOTHER WANTED TO TEACH
US ABOUT TAKING CARE OF OUR HEALTH. SO, WHEN WOULD WE LISTEN? WHEN WE WERE DOWN WITH CHICKEN POX AND MEASLES AND MUMPS WE WERE VERY, VERY ATTENTIVE. SHE ALWAYS HAD A SENSE OF CONTEXT. SHE ALWAYS HAD A SENSE OF-AFTER WE DID A LOT OF WORK, THERE WOULD BE SOME DELICIOUS FOOD ON THE TABLE. SHE ALWAYS HAD A SENSE OF SINGING SONGS. SO THERE’S A LOT OF ENJOYMENT THAT WAY, BUT IT’S GETTING AT THE CHILD EARLY. THAT’S THE KEY TO SO MUCH OF WHAT SHE THOUGHT WOULD BE PARENTAL
SUCCESS, AND LIVING BY EXAMPLE, TEACHING BY EXAMPLE. IF YOU TRY TO TELL A CHILD, “DO THIS! DON’T DO THAT! YOU’RE NOT GONNA AMOUNT TO ANYTHING!” IT’S GOING TO BE
REBELLION. IT’S GOING TO BE A TERRIBLE EFFECT. BUT IF YOU BASICALLY LET—TAKE THE CHILD WITH YOU TO GATHERINGS, TO PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND SO ON, THEN THEY LEARN. THERE’S A TRADITION OF SIBLING EQUALITY. THEY NEVER FAVORED ONE CHILD OVER ANOTHER. IN FACT, WE USED TO BAIT THEM AND TRY TO GET THEM, SAY, “WELL,
YOU KNOW, CLAIRE IS BETTER…” THEY WOULD NEVER DO IT. THEY KNEW THAT THE CHILD WHO WAS DISFAVORED OVER A PERIOD OF TIME IS GOING TO BE SCARRED FOR LIFE. SO IT WAS ALWAYS EVEN-STEVEN. NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GIRLS AND BOYS. MY SISTERS GOT PhDs—HAD VERY PROMINENT ACTIVITIES IN THEIR LIFE. NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER.
IT’S JUST UNBELIEVABLE HOW GOOD THEIR INTUITION AND THEIR JUDGMENT WAS BECAUSE THEY WEREN’T STEERED BY OUTSIDE FORCES. JUST BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT EVERYBODY DOES, YOU KNOW. “HEY, EVERYBODY DOES IT.” WELL, THAT WAS JUST THE BEGINNING OF THE DISCUSSION. WHEN I CAME HOME ONE DAY, AND I WAS 8 YEARS OLD OR SO, AND I CAME HOME SEMI-CRYING SAYING, “I WANT TO WEAR LONG PANTS. ALL THE OTHER BOYS ARE WEARING LONG PANTS.” MY MOTHER SAID, “WHY DO YOU WANT TO WEAR LONG PANTS?” I SAID, “WELL, IF I FALL, I SCUFF MY KNEE, AND IT’S COLD IN THE WINTER.” AND SHE DIDN’T BUY THAT. AND SO I SAID, “OK, MOTHER, THEIR MOTHERS LET THEM WEAR LONG PANTS.” AND SHE SAID, “WELL, THEY HAVE THEIR MOTHERS, AND YOU HAVE YOURS. AND WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF BEING A LITTLE DIFFERENT?” SEE THE SEED THAT WAS PLANTED? “WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF BEING A LITTLE DIFFERENT?” AND A WHOLE CASCADE OF THESE LITTLE TELLING THE RIGHT WORDS AT THE RIGHT TIME HAD A VERY INDELIBLE IMPACT. AND THAT’S TRUE OF MILLIONS OF KIDS. THE RIGHT WORDS AT THE RIGHT TIME.

J.Z.: LET’S GO TO OHIO FOR A CALL. CALLER? CALLER?

Caller: YES, HELLO?

J.Z.: HI. YOUR QUESTION.

Caller: HI. I’M A 14-YEAR-OLD ARAB AMERICAN CALLING FROM CLEVELAND, OHIO.

J.Z.: SURE.

Caller: AND I’M A BIG FAN OF RALPH NADER, AND I WOULD LIKE TO ASK IF YOU
WILL BE RUNNING FOR THIS 2008 ELECTION? AND IF NOT, WHICH CANDIDATE WOULD HE MOST LIKELY ENDORSE?

J.Z.: THANK YOU.

Nader: I’M GETTING THAT QUESTION OFTEN. IT’S TOO EARLY TO SAY. I’VE GOT TO WORRY ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, FILING ALL KINDS OF LAWSUITS THEY FILED AGAINST US IN 2004 TO GET US OFF THE BALLOT. YOU KNOW, IN THIS COUNTRY, UNLIKE WESTERN EUROPE AND CANADA, THE BIGGEST HURDLE FOR A THIRD PARTY IS JUST TO GET ON THE BALLOT BECAUSE THE TWO PARTIES CONTROL THE LAWS AND HAVE ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO GET YOU OFF THE BALLOT—PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO, OREGON, ARIZONA. SO BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR I’LL MAKE A DECISION.

J.Z.: AND BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR I WANT TO GET YOU BACK, AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. BUT I ALSO WANT TO TALK ABOUT IRAQ AND ABOUT PALESTINE AND ISRAEL AND ABOUT THE -ABOUT LEBANON, A COUNTRY I KNOW YOU LOVE. AND ABOUT CIVIL LIBERTIES AND WHAT’S HAPPENING HERE AT HOME. BUT A LAST ISSUE ON THE BOOK. THERE’S A CLOSING PHRASE I WANT TO USE THAT IS YOURS, AND IT’S ABOUT DEEDS.
“DEEDS LEGITIMIZE WORDS,” YOU SAY AT THE END OF THE BOOK. “THERE CAN BE NO AUTHENTIC PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS WITHOUT THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE.” DOES RALPH NADER FEEL HAPPY?

Nader: YES, BECAUSE I PURSUE JUSTICE. ACTUALLY, IF YOU GET INVOLVED IN PURSUING JUSTICE, YOU SEE HOW PEOPLE-HEALTHIER AND SAFER IN CAR CRASHES. THEY WALK AWAY, FOR EXAMPLE BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEAT BELTS AND AIRBAGS. IT’S THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT’S A GREAT GRATIFICATION. THAT’S TRUE THROUGHOUT HISTORY. WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP REDISCOVERING IT. YOU KNOW, THERE’S AN OLD CHINESE PROVERB THAT SAID, “TO KNOW AND NOT TO DO IS NOT TO KNOW.” THAT WAS OVER 2,000 YEARS AGO. TO KNOW AND NOT TO DO IS NOT TO KNOW. AND I QUOTE IN THE BOOK THE BEST DEFINITION OF FREEDOM I’VE EVER HEARD WAS BY MARCUS CICERO OVER 2,00 YEARS AGO IN ANCIENT ROME. HE WAS A LAWYER. HE SAID, QUOTE, FREEDOM IS PARTICIPATION IN POWER, END QUOTE. SEE, THE WAY POLITICIANS THROW THESE WORDS AROUND—FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, LIBERTY. FREEDOM MEANS PARTICIPATION IN POWER.
IF YOU CAN’T PARTICIPATE IN THE DECISIONS—LOCAL, STATE, NATIONAL—THAT AFFECT YOU, YOU’RE NOT FREE.

J.Z.: BILL CLINTON USE TO TELL A STORY ABOUT WHEN HE WENT TO IOWA, MISSISSIPPI
HAD FLOODED, AND PEOPLE WERE UP TO THEIR KNEES IN WATER AND PUTTING SAND IN
SANDBAGS AND TRYING – AND HE SAID THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT IT
WAS THAT THERE WAS A SMILE ON EVERYBODY’S FACE BECAUSE THEY WERE WORKING TOGETHER.

Nader: IT’S LIKE A BARN RAISING IN THE FARM AREA. YOU KNOW, WHEN THE BARN BURNED DOWN THEY ALL CAME TOGETHER AND REBUILT THE BARN. IT GETS THE BEST OUT OF PEOPLE. COMMUNITY BRINGS THE BEST OUT OF PEOPLE JUST LIKE DEMOCRACY BRINGS THE BEST OUT OF PEOPLE.

J.Z.: WE’RE A LONG WAY FROM THAT IN TERMS OF DAILY LIFE. I MEAN, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WE’RE FACING TODAY IS THIS GROWING ALIENATION AND ALMOST NUCLEARIZATION, NOT JUST THE NUCLEAR FAMILY, BUT OF INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT CONNECTEDNESS. AND THE POLITICAL PARTIES DON’T EXIST, THE TOWN MEETING YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT WAS THE WAY OF LIFE OF PEOPLE IN NEW ENGLAND IS—THEY’RE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN TODAY.
HOW DO WE GET THAT BACK? HOW DO WE GET BACK CITIZEN PARTICIPATION AND COMMUNAL CIVIC ACTIVITIES?

Nader: THERE’S NO SUBSTITUTE FOR MORE PEOPLE TALKING WITH MORE PEOPLE
FROM THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS, TO THEIR COMMUNITIES, ALL THE WAY. IT’S, “HOW DO WE START DISARMING NUCLEAR WARHEADS?” BECAUSE PEOPLE MARCHED AND THEY DEMONSTRATED AND THE POLITICIANS FINALLY SAID WE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. HOW DID PEOPLE ROLL BACK THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY? BECAUSE SCIENCE—SCIENTISTS CONNECTED IT TO LUNG CANCER AND OTHER AILMENTS, AND THEN DOCTORS STARTED COUNSELING PATIENTS, AND THEN PEOPLE STARTED FILING LAWSUITS AGAINST THE DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING OF TOBACCO COMPANIES, AND THEY STARTED TALKING AND WRITING, AND NONSMOKING SECTIONS IN AIRPLANES AND HOSPITAL WAITING ROOMS AND NOW IN RESTAURANTS. IT’S THE ACCUMULATION OF MILLIONS OF LITTLE EFFORTS ON ALL
OUR PARTS. ONCE WE START SAYING TO OURSELVES, “WELL, WHAT AM I? YOU KNOW,
I DON’T COUNT.”

J.Z.: WE’RE OUT OF TIME BECAUSE I WANT TO GET UP ON THE SCREEN THE E-MAIL FOR THE BOOK, AND IF YOU’VE GOT A TRADITION THAT YOU WANT TO SHARE, SEND IT TO
WWW.SEVENTEENTRADITIONS.COM. RALPH WOULD BE HAPPY TO GET IT AND TO INCLUDE IT A LATER EFFORT. THANK YOU. GET THE BOOK. THANK YOU, RALPH NADER, FOR JOINING US.
THANKS TO YOUR MOM AND DAD AND FOR WHAT THEY DID.

Nader: THANK YOU. CERTAINLY.